“Hi, I'm Matteo”, listen to the other side of the call from WhatsApp. Is in Beijing and the voice comes at times choppy, but there is no doubt who belongs to whom for a time was the most popular politician in Europe and one of the first ministers with the longest and most highly regarded of the last decades in Italy. Renzi (Florence, 45 years) was a cyclone election, the enfant terrible of the social democracy. But made some mistakes and politics, especially in Rome, it does not allow to live rent. After a summer of vertigo that led to the fall of Matteo Salvini of the Government, has reinvented itself to become a leader of a small party with 5% of estimate vote, but that has in the pocket the key of the governance of the country with a handful of decisive votes and two ministers in the Executive. “A wall against populism”, he adds, although to do this you have to live with the Movement 5 Stars (M5S) and form part of an Executive who makes decisions that, often, do not share. Inside and outside of Italy.

Question. The Government of which his party is part is failing in its attempt mediation with Libya and has starred in some of the weird episodes in the past few days. What is failing?

Response. I Am very negatively surprised by the situation in Libya. We are registering a clear absence of Europe accompanied by a lack of commitment american, who ever is washing hands more throughout the game international. Due to the gradual energy self-sufficiency of the united States, who are gradually leaving some territories related to that section.

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Q. The role of Europe is perhaps still worse.

A. Yes, and emerge a renewed prominence of Russia and Turkey, which marks a change of paradigm. Turkey is more concerned with the Mediterranean to Europe, and in that sense, Italy is not working well. We need a protagonist in Libya and in the Mediterranean in particular. You can not accept to give Erdogan space of influence in territories that should star in Europe.

Q. it Seems a joke, but to Italy he was better off with Berlusconi and Gaddafi.

A. The departure of Gaddafi, the way she was intended and designed, opened many questions. Only once in the history of the united States, a president issued the mea culpa while still being in the office on a decision of international politics: was Obama and said that Libya had been wrong. Berlusconi was a great friend of Gaddafi, but was also in the coalition that overthrew the government. The Italian Government has to change the step, waking up... but all Europe must choose which relationship to have with the north of Africa and the East.

Q. do you Think that Luigi Di Maio has been able to rise as Foreign minister?

“A Government in Spain between the Spanish socialist party Citizens would have been more solid - ”

A. I don't want to open internal controversies, it would be very easy. I have a lot of divisions with him and with president Conte. Did this government to send home to Salvini and give stability to our belonging to Europe. It was so urgent that it even came to an agreement with M5S, with whom I have a very bad relationship. But I think that now you have to raise your voice and say enough is enough to the role of Turkey. It is not controversial, only tips.

Q. what Is the given to Conte in private?

A. No, it's enough that we don't talk.

Q. You were a prime minister lasting for standards Italian. Do you think that Conte should be the person in which to confide until the end of the mandate?

A. do Not know, sincerely. Our policy is the realm of the instability. We change more or less of prime minister every year, we 67 governments in 73 years. But it is true that other countries that were more stable today have known this instability, the same as Spain...

Q. We have italianizado.

A. I wanted to transform Italy in a european democracy, but I see that many european democracies are italianizando. It is the effect of the referendum that I called [laughs].

Q. This Government is rather antisalvini that an Executive with a project of country.

A. Yes, but is that with M5S there are so many differences... we feel committed to go ahead with this majority, we will see how it is achieved until the end of the legislature.

Q. Then, will your party guarantee the support to this Government?

A. What we did for that, but the important thing is to consider to Italy to Live, which today is a small party, such as a wall to populism. That's why we can not accept standards anticiudadanas, as it is proposing to M5S. The populist govern on Twitter, politicians make institutions. Tax evasion, for example, does not fight with a “we are all the jail you all!”, but relying on new technologies to cross data. Today the treasury know all of you!

Q. To someone might sound unlikely to be the wall of populism remains its ally in the Government.

A. we Had two alternatives. If you voted, you'd win a Salvini and ruled five years risking to bring Italy to the European Union. The second was to cover the nose and make the agreement with M5S. To my cost me, but we took her to the country to change their position on the European Union, and now the battle is over all the arguments.

Q. what The next elections in Emilia Romagna will decide the future of the Government?

“The Italian institutions will need to Draghi in the coming months,”

A. Or in case of victory, or in the event of defeat. But the Government must remember that the only way to be in balance is to pedal. You have to unlock the works, generate work... There is a paradox in Italy, if it is true that there are so many problems, it is also true that the low cost of money is very positive for a country with so much debt. If you do something to make reforms, when the titles expire and any new emissions, and lengthen the time limits, we will pay little of the cost of the debt.

Q. The Government will be entitled to take if Salvini wins in Emilia Romagna and demonstrates that even in a region historically is able to frenarle.

Q. Gane who wins, the Government will need to change your step the next day. And especially in the topic of the public work.

Q. do Not believe that to Salvini, with a support of more than 30%, perhaps it would be better to leave him to govern and see what it is capable of doing?

A. If he wins the election, will be respected. But Italy can't afford a leader like Salvini's that are unclear, their relations, cone Russia, which attacks members of the EU, which invokes the social hatred on the issue of immigration... A Government Salvini is no vaccine, could do a lot of damage.

Q. And if we do not vote in the next few months, what strategy do you think that will continue?

A. A progressive withdrawal of the right wing pro-sovereignty and move closer to the European people's Party. It is my bet. It will be allocated each time more of the approaches that has now Vox in Spain and look more like Married, to put it in Spanish terms. If you want a future, you will have to do this.

Q. If the Government falls, do you see Mario Draghi as prime minister?

A. The Italian institutions will need to Draghi in the coming months. I don't know to what level, and I don't want to create problems or difficulties. But if it was an observer would say that the institutions will call to your door. He is a person that Italy needs at all levels. But now let him rest.

Q. Italy Alive, the party that created this summer to capture the votes of center on a stage polarized, today has around 5% in the polls. Did you expect so little?

A. I always dreamed of a different model, in which whoever wins governs 5 years. But we lost the referendum and returned to a proportional system. The goal is to reach 10% to be a bulwark against populism. With calm, without anxiety.

Q. In the European Parliament, who will sit?

A. In the group with a Macron.

Q. , And with Citizens, who will always be identified... Today, the party is splintered.

A. I dreamed of an agreement between Citizens and socialist after the previous elections. Would have done well to Spain, but it was not possible. I will not say because of who... But after that, Citizens turned to the right and he made a serious error that has paid dearly. But a Government with Peter [Sanchez] and Albert [Rivera] would have been more solid than the current one. That said, we respect the decision of the Spanish citizens.

Q. do Not like the settlement with we Can?

A. Are risky bets, and that also applies to us with M5S. Only time will tell if the results come or not. What I am sure of is that Europe as a whole lives in a strange time. There are agreements really extravagant. Think of Spain or Italy, but look at Austria: popular and green. The western democracy is living a crisis, although you must continue defending yourself.

Date Of Update: 12 January 2020, 21:00