Over 150 objects searched, more than 3000 emergency services: On Wednesday, the Federal Republic experienced one of the largest terrorist operations in its history. 25 people from the "Reichsbürger" scene were arrested. "How great is the threat of terrorism from enemies of the state?" Anne Will wanted to know from her guests on Sunday evening.
With "Anne Will" everyone in the studio agreed that the threat had to be taken seriously. "Right-wing extremism is the biggest challenge to internal security that we have," said ex-Federal Minister of the Interior Gerhart Baum.
The liberal considered "Reich citizens" to be more dangerous than the RAF. The reason: In his view, the acceptance of right-wing ideas is much greater than that of left-wing extremism. Of particular concern to Baum was the fact that people with anti-democratic ideals were "starting to reach out to the people."
Federal Interior Minister Nancy Faeser also spoke of a "serious threat". She was glad that the raid could be cracked down on so consistently.
In addition to a former AfD member of parliament, those arrested included former officers and police officers. "Do security authorities have a structural problem with right-wing extremism?" Will initially wanted to know from Faeser.
She spoke out in favor of the fact that no "general suspicion" should be pronounced. Of course, enemies of the constitution should be quickly removed from the public service.
Linke boss Janine Wissler had a different opinion: "I think it's a structural problem," she said of right-wing extremism in security agencies. From their point of view, this has nothing to do with a general suspicion. Rather, she pointed out that supervisors must have noticed that SEK officials had exchanged views in right-wing chat groups. According to Wissler, there is no independent investigative body for such cases.
When Wissler finally pointed out, to support her view of a structural problem, that not only members of the SEK but also officials from high-ranking positions were in the chat groups, NRW's Interior Minister Herbert Reul burst out: "You are totally wrong, that's really gross nonsense," said the CDU man about Wissler's analysis.
"Talking stupidly and creating a mood" is one side, the other takes care of it, says Reul angrily. "We had such chat groups in NRW," said the state's interior minister. He had these examined by experts who came to the conclusion that there was no structural problem. It is much more likely that there are individual cases, of which there could also be numerous.
Reul explained that his big problem in this context is that he does not "get convicted" of the people involved because the chats are classified as private before the law.
The second big bang between Wissler and Reul was not long in coming. It came when the left-wing leader of the Union shared responsibility for the emergence of radical splinter groups that withdrew from the public onto the Internet.
Specifically, Wissler believed the Union's debate about German citizenship being "discounted" contributed to the "breeding ground" for extremists.
Reul didn't let that sit on him: "Ms. Wissler, if I were in her place, I would take a look at her old chairwoman," said the NRW interior minister. Sahra Wagenknecht is the third most popular politician in the AfD. "I have no problem with that, you have a problem with that," says Reul.
Wissler did not respond to this accusation, but returned to her topic: "I appeal to you not to have a debate about citizenship now." "I don't do it either!", says Reul.
His closing words on the show were then milder again: "Perhaps what is happening right now offers the opportunity for a broad debate" about what is behind it, said the CDU man.